WhereIsVictoria wrote:

The blackface of yesteryear was more than just painting your face... THAT was absolutely racist because it was presenting the belief that black skinned people were stupid and only to be laughed at. It was a form of entertainment and it is quite disgusting from a 2016 point of view. That said, someone painting their face to look more like Bill Cosby says nothing about the entirety of any race. It's mildly insulting the way you're speaking to me, but it looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

So would you say the people who dressed up as Trayvon Martin a few years ago "black face, hoodie, gunshot wound) weren't being racist? They just thought it was "fun" to dress up as someone from another race/culture?
You saying  "well he's just trying to look like bill Cosby. It's not that bad." is an example of excusing away the bad, bigoted, racist behavior and allowing it to be normalized. This is the creation and fostering of racism (whether it's overt or more subtle).
Do you think rape culture is made up also?
This isn't about people being overly "sensitive". This is demonstrative of people (primarily white people) mocking, oppressing and stigmatizing blackness. It was never ok when it began years ago and it is not ok today

If you find it mildly insulting the way I'm "speaking" to you....good...it's the bare minimum you should feel to try to excuse his actions.

CCL18 wrote:

SoftPretzels wrote:

WhereIsVictoria wrote:

The blackface of yesteryear was more than just painting your face... THAT was absolutely racist because it was presenting the belief that black skinned people were stupid and only to be laughed at. It was a form of entertainment and it is quite disgusting from a 2016 point of view. That said, someone painting their face to look more like Bill Cosby says nothing about the entirety of any race. It's mildly insulting the way you're speaking to me, but it looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

So would you say the people who dressed up as Trayvon Martin a few years ago "black face, hoodie, gunshot wound) weren't being racist? They just thought it was "fun" to dress up as someone from another race/culture?
You saying "well he's just trying to look like bill Cosby. It's not that bad." is an example of excusing away the bad, bigoted, racist behavior and allowing it to be normalized. This is the creation and fostering of racism (whether it's overt or more subtle).
Do you think rape culture is made up also?
This isn't about people being overly "sensitive". This is demonstrative of people (primarily white people) mocking, oppressing and stigmatizing blackness. It was never ok when it began years ago and it is not ok today

If you find it mildly insulting the way I'm "speaking" to you....good...it's the bare minimum you should feel to try to excuse his actions.

I rarely post here, but do read.  However, this is just beyond and feel the need to comment.

"How is dressing up as someone of another race, racist?"  It's called cultural (mis)appropriation.  On Halloween, often costumes are used to provide humor, mockery, or fright. Dressing as another race or cultural identity is often done so in a way that is fetishizing, commodifying, or simply othering the other race/culture.  Cultural appropriation occurs when the dominant race borrows (often in appearance or customs) from another race that has been oppressed and exploited.  Also, what is being represented is usually an object of particular sentiment and sensitivity, and is adorned without recognition of special customs (e.g., a White person wearing a Native American headdress).  

Just think of it this of it this way: My race is not a costume.  My religion is not a costume.  My sexuality is not a costume. Etc. Etc.

Secondly, dressing up as Bill Cosby is also atrocious given what this man has been accused of by many women.  Do you think rape culture is something that should be funny?  I imagine you wouldn't find it hilarious for someone to dress up like a murderer.  This is also the reason why I was disgusted with Taylor's idea of dressing up like Kim K.  Sure, people mock Kim and are offended by her need to flash her wealth.  That said, it doesn't make it okay that she was bound, gagged, and robbed.  And by Taylor dressing up as Kim  is suggesting that she is condoning violence against women.

 

 
I agree with everything you said!!!! Thank you!!

Durst_Burp wrote:

CCL18 & Softpretzels, would you agree that the below is also racist and that students of non-German/Austral-Hungarian descent dressed in such costumes should receive similar punishment? These costumes both appropriate a culture and perpetuate a stereotype, yet they never seem to make it onto anyone's list of racist costumes.

 
😂😂 You tried it!!

Based on the background imagery they are participating in Oktoberfest.... Sure looks like they are participating in a cultural event but not demeaning it. What would have made it adequate for the point you are trying to make would be if they slapped on some Nazi regalia or also painted themselves white....
additionally is there a long history of people of color dehumanizing, segregating, fetishizing and oppressing white or German people that I'm not aware of? That might have also helped your point you are attempting to make.

Again girl... nice try but big fail.

SoftPretzels wrote:

Durst_Burp wrote:

CCL18 & Softpretzels, would you agree that the below is also racist and that students of non-German/Austral-Hungarian descent dressed in such costumes should receive similar punishment? These costumes both appropriate a culture and perpetuate a stereotype, yet they never seem to make it onto anyone's list of racist costumes.

 
😂😂 You tried it!!

Based on the background imagery they are participating in Oktoberfest.... Sure looks like they are participating in a cultural event but not demeaning it. What would have made it adequate for the point you are trying to make would be if they slapped on some Nazi regalia or also painted themselves white....
additionally is there a long history of people of color dehumanizing, segregating, fetishizing and oppressing white or German people that I'm not aware of? That might have also helped your point you are attempting to make.

Again girl... nice try but big fail.

I didn't ask if the costumes in the photos were offensive in the context of Oktoberfest. If a student showed up to the same party as the Bill Cosby guy, would they get a pass?
 
So if I go to a Native American festival, it's ok for me to dress like one? Is it impossible to fathom that not every white person who wears the dress of another culture is doing so for the purpose of demeaning it and may actually be celebrating it? Some definitely are, and I do not agree with black fave, but making the assumption that all white people are racist and that non-whites are incapable of racism is wrong.

Last edited by Durst_Burp (11/09/2016 5:15 pm)

WhereIsVictoria wrote:

This is some pretty extreme extrapolation... I'll start with addressing the costume situation. Taylor dressing up as Kim is in horrible taste. Dressing up as Trayvon Martin is in horrible taste. Dressing up as Bill Cosby is in poor taste. Dressing up as Bill Clinton with Monica Lewinski is in poor taste as well. Is it sexist and racist? Probably not... offensive, yes. They are absolutely offensive costumes, but the effects of offense are not usually life-threatening. By the way, I never said I thought the Bill Cosby costume was appropriate, funny or a good idea. I don't think it was any of those things.

On cultural misappropriation: By this misappropriation logic, ANY and EVERY costume is misappropriating something... whether it is someone's profession, religion, hobby, pet... there is then no way to wear a costume and NOT offend someone. I think it's possible to misappropriate things, such as ceremonial dress of another culture, absolutely... but I think losing our sh*t because Hilary Duff and her boyfriend dressed as a pilgrim and an Indian is a waste of our collective time. 

And dressing up as someone of another race... at some point we have to draw a line for our own sanity. I would never tell someone they can't dress as Disney's Cinderella because her skin tone was wrong. I would never tell someone they can't dress up as Michael Jackson because their skin tone was wrong. Costumes are supposed to be fantasy... you shouldn't have to stick to things that "go with your race". Would you be angry at someone dressed at Snookie or Donald Trump and using an entire bronzer kit? Would you be mad at someone who made themselves pale to go as a geisha, or blue to go as a smurf/blueman/avatar? Did you see the movie White Chicks? Costumes are just that... playing dress up. Dressing as a character shouldn't be meant to harass, intimidate or offend... and if it does we can let those people know. But the world would be in a pretty awful place if we made little girls adhere to strict requirements on which Disney princess they dress as.

 

Again with the excusing away racist and bigoted behavior.
A little black girl dressing up as Cinderella would be fine.... a little black girl dressing up as Cinderella with white face on would be wrong. I don't understand how you can't seem to grasp that basic concept.

SoftPretzels wrote:

Also Durst Burp are you implying because they are black they do not have German or Hungarian heritage? All based on the color of their skin? Unless you know their ethnic makeup that's quite an assumption to make.

 
Agreed- and it's quite an assumption to make about people who appear "white" in ethnic costumes as well.

It's ok, Softpretzels, try not to get too upset. You are clearly distressed by the election results and looking for an outlet, I don't know why else you would resurrect a post from a week ago.

Durst_Burp wrote:

SoftPretzels wrote:

Also Durst Burp are you implying because they are black they do not have German or Hungarian heritage? All based on the color of their skin? Unless you know their ethnic makeup that's quite an assumption to make.

 
Agreed- and it's quite an assumption to make about people who appear "white" in ethnic costumes as well.

It's ok, Softpretzels, try not to get too upset. You are clearly distressed by the election results and looking for an outlet, I don't know why else you would resurrect a post from a week ago.

 
Girl I could care less about the election results. I did my part. We can now say we have our first citrus-American president
I haven't been on here in weeks... and I would have addressed this post then if I'd seen it.

But I see you making an ASSumption about why I brought this topic up....Any way to deflect from a real issue and to accept that your views might be problematic and contribute towards the bigger picture of racism and bigotry even if you yourself do not consider yourself racist.

Bravo, Magoo.

Durst_Burp wrote:

CCL18 & Softpretzels, would you agree that the below is also racist and that students of non-German/Austral-Hungarian descent dressed in such costumes should receive similar punishment? These costumes both appropriate a culture and perpetuate a stereotype, yet they never seem to make it onto anyone's list of racist costumes.

Personally, I wouldn't do it.  That said, historically White Germans are not an oppressed, exploited, and marginalized group.  So, I do not take offense to this nearly as much as I take offense to White individuals dressing up as people of color.

WhereIsVictoria wrote:

On cultural misappropriation: By this misappropriation logic, ANY and EVERY costume is misappropriating something... whether it is someone's profession, religion, hobby, pet... there is then no way to wear a costume and NOT offend someone. I think it's possible to misappropriate things, such as ceremonial dress of another culture, absolutely... but I think losing our sh*t because Hilary Duff and her boyfriend dressed as a pilgrim and an Indian is a waste of our collective time. 

And dressing up as someone of another race... at some point we have to draw a line for our own sanity. I would never tell someone they can't dress as Disney's Cinderella because her skin tone was wrong. I would never tell someone they can't dress up as Michael Jackson because their skin tone was wrong. Costumes are supposed to be fantasy... you shouldn't have to stick to things that "go with your race". Would you be angry at someone dressed at Snookie or Donald Trump and using an entire bronzer kit? Would you be mad at someone who made themselves pale to go as a geisha, or blue to go as a smurf/blueman/avatar? Did you see the movie White Chicks? Costumes are just that... playing dress up. Dressing as a character shouldn't be meant to harass, intimidate or offend... and if it does we can let those people know. But the world would be in a pretty awful place if we made little girls adhere to strict requirements on which Disney princess they dress as.

It seems that you are missing the point that Soft Pretzels and I are making.  No is saying that you can't dress like a princess.  We are saying don't dress like a marginalized group of people.  And really, using Snookie as an example.  Come on.  Snookie is not trying to be black.  She was "tanning" herself, not wearing blackface.  There is a difference.  And White Chicks...a really dumb movie, that I would never use in any example that requires as shred of education and advocacy for the oppressed.SaveSave

Just a Canadian, First Nation's Lady here sending everyone lots of love! 

PRECISELY wrote:

We're awfully quiet today....

Dang you really got them started didn't you! lol!

Thanks greattaste!  One of my favorite things about the old school Wake Up was that Taylor was very talented at breaking down issues, and dissecting them intelligently from all angles with the help of her callers.  I really loved and miss this aspect of the show and am glad it can carry over to this board. 

Kicked_off_the_trampoline wrote:

Great points, Great Taste. I don't think it's fair to label every trump supporter as a racist, bigot, etc. It's such an unfair generalization. I know plenty of good people who voted Trump. They are kind, intelligent people who are open minded and would never in a million years say anything racist. These people support gay rights and volunteer in our community. I understand people being upset with the results, but we need to stop spewing hate at each other and simply listen.

 
Who said anything about trump?

Regarding the election:  Every one is a hypocrit. On both sides.

Yes.

Pre-election
R - if Donald trump doesn't win. We revolt. Arm up. #rigged
D - that's absolutely rediculous. Calm the fuck down

After election:
D - protesting the result
R - we won Fair and square now STFU

Pre- election
R - terribly horribly things about obama.
Post election.
R - you need to respect our president

D- everyone who voted for trump is a bigot, racist ......
R - the sweeping generalizations need to stop.
R - onlynunemployed looking for handout millinals who were never told no voted for Clinton.